Clint Betts

But our job is to help communities, help entrepreneurs start and kind of provide them with a community and then they should go to startup accelerators or whatever. >> There's so much entrepreneurship in Utah. There's a vast number of entrepreneurs that have never heard of Silicon Slopes, >> Startup School, Startup Ignition, or any of these other programs. It's crazy. It next rock. >> Welcome back to the Startup Ignition podcast. Thank you guys so much for tuning in every episode. I hope this is not dragging on for you. This is episode 57. If we're old news, you know, tag me in a comment and let me know. But I'm Tyler. This is John. We are your tag team father-son duo in everything Stardust. But today, >> excited for today's guest. >> We have someone who's probably going to battle us for that spot. Um, not father and son, unless you want to be [laughter] my father or son. Clint, >> I would love to be part of the Richard's family. >> But we have Clint Betts in the house today and we are so excited. CEO of Silicon Slopes, the namesake of this area that we all tout around the country. You are the organizer. So, thank you so much, Clint, for taking the time coming down to our little studio here and filming an awesome podcast episode. I cannot wait to dive in. >> Yeah. Thanks for having me, guys. >> No, thank you. No, thank you for coming. I know. >> He was a way earlier podcaster than this. I think I was on his podcast. >> I think you've been a few times, John. You've [laughter] been on You've been on the podcast. >> He was a really early podcast. >> I You have really cool episodes, too. I mean, >> let's I don't want to digress here too much, but the podcasting game is hard. >> It's very hard. >> It's very hard. >> Yeah. You got to you got to like figure out why you're doing it, right? Because you're not trying to be Joe Rogan. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Or some of these like Theo Von or things like that who they can kind of make a whole living around it. There's probably a hundred people who can make a living >> just doing podcasts in the whole world, >> right? But I think what you guys are doing is exactly the way most people should think about it, which is how can you use it to kind of, you know, have more in-depth and more tailored conversations than you'd find on those other places. >> A little a little bit more tactful. >> Anyways, before we start, I want to read a bio so everybody knows who you are. >> Oh boy. >> And what you're doing and how cool you are in this ecosystem. So I hope this is correct. And >> let's see what happens. >> Yeah. So I and I'm sure you're using a lot of chat GBG, >> of course. I actually think I used Claude. So Claude's my weapon of choice these days, but um >> yes, Clint Betts is the CEO of Silicon Slopes, the nonprofit organization dedicated to making Utah one of the best places in the world to start and grow a company. Silicon Slopes serves as a central hub in Utah. I feel like it's the namesake of where we are from and what we kind of call this valley. It's the tech ecosystem bringing together founders, investors, operators, mentors, community leaders, and companies just just connect, learn, and grow all together. But before that, you were doing beehive startups that kind of merged into Silicon Slopes back in the day. I remember uh uh beehive startups very well back in the day that I was building a company called Dev Mountain. >> Yeah. We wrote the first Dev Mountain story, I think. I think we announced you guys if I'm not mistaken. I remember going to the startup building. >> Yeah. And I I remember being face to face just like this across a desk, me, you and Kaylin talking shops about stuff back like Exactly. Was that 15 years ago? That's kind of crazy. >> Yeah. It was so long ago. >> Um so and then uh you are also the CEO of CEO.com which is very cool. And you spent years interviewing leaders and other important people, founders. Um, and what makes Clint really interesting is that your path is unique in that you have kind of forged forward through media and writing and community and relationships and also that we were talking pre-podcast uh your battle close to home with cancer and cool things that have kind of made you who you are today. We were talking about a pre-podcast. So, we're going to dive into all of this. So, once again, thank you Clint for coming on the podcast. You were an amazing human being and I don't know when you guys maybe first met. Was it around the time >> long time ago even before beehive startups which was formed as kind of a media promotional offshoot of the kind of vent I don't I call it a venture studio but what what did >> Yeah. We were running a software development firm in Probo called >> basically a dev shop but you kind of went beyond a dev shop and kind of made it more of an incubator studio. Do you think that's a good point? >> Yeah. So like uh the Weave, we built the first version of Weave, maybe second, third version of Weave as well. Um >> and worked with them and we'd help uh startups kind of build their initial product and then they'd be able to transition to an in-house team. >> You had that rockar, they don't like to be called that, that one coder. What was that software engineer? I'm trying to remember his name right now. He was incredible. He worked on like 10 companies at the same time. >> Gundersons were amazing. >> Yeah, but Brimhall. thing. Thout wasn't f like really talented. >> It honestly when I look back at Ieni and the amount of talent that was in that company >> yeah it >> it blows my mind. I mean, we had incredible designers. We had incredible videographers. Um, which now like the Jay Davis from Pillow Cube, he was he was inside of Isizeni. There's >> way before the days of vibe coding though, like you had thing on 10 or 12 companies and he was just going you kept it and doing stuff and he was doing incredible things. >> Isizeni came up with the name Divvy built the first version of Divvy. >> Yeah. Um so uh chatbooks a lot of the major tech companies that came out of there that was they would see any first in some way. >> I think this is like a reoccurring theme maybe not just in Utah and all startups altogether. It's just that you know the constraint and the agility and the quickness and the high-risisk environment of startups just breeds those kind of people and they go off and do their own things. So greatness comes from greatness. So many things we're going to cover here is that I want to go back to kind of where he came from and all that. But before we do that, you got you got I'm doing an icebreaker with Clint. There's so many little things Clint has done >> that add added up to this incred thing. That's just it's like incredible [snorts] if you we go through all Well, hopefully we'll have time for it all. Let's get >> Okay, let's try to jam this in in a 45 minute maybe pushing an hour episode. We don't want to take too much of Clint's time, but we could probably talk for five hours. [laughter] >> Yeah, for sure. Okay, Clint, I don't know if you've seen any of the episodes. You said you did pre-podcast, but we do ice breakers every episode where I spring a little something something on every single guest. So, we're going to play a little game here for minutes. Okay, let's do it. >> We're going to get in the mood and we're going to get in the the swing of things. Okay, >> we're going to play who's invited. I'm going to push you a little bit here. >> I love [laughter] it. And we're going to do a thing where you can talk about any founder, community people, anybody because you're such a organizer, such a community player that I want to see who you are going to put in some top spots or in some low spots here. Okay. So, here we go. Clint, >> this won't get me in trouble at all. >> I know. [laughter] So, feel free to uh ask for an edit here after the episode. Um, but we're going to go first prompt here. One Utah founder everybody should know. >> Oh, man. So like uh you would eliminate those that they probably already know. >> Is that what you're saying? >> Sure. >> Who but like who comes top of mind? >> Be a hidden gem. Yeah. >> Yeah. Who who's who's one founder that everybody should know? >> Well, you've got obvious the obvious ones like you know you got Josh, you've got Ryan, you've got Sconard, you've got >> um Brock Blake who you had in here. You have um Andrew Smith. I don't know. Honestly, like that's who I would pick is is Andrew Smith. I I think that might be a little bit of a hidden gem for for people like >> you got Jeremy Andress who I think is amazing and by the way I think he should be the next governor of Utah. >> Um so let's starting on our podcast. >> Let's start promoting that now. >> And for all the viewers and listeners episode 18, Andrew Smith, go check it out. He's a good dude to know. Go reach out to Andrew. >> But yeah, for for those like cuz he because he's he obviously started his career in tech and now he's doing um >> you know restaurants and savory and funding those types of things. But I just love that man and I love his wife even more. Shauna is like even better than him. >> I just I just had a really good conversation at the Aelle event with Shauna and I sat down and talked to her for probably 40 minutes. >> They're both just the best. They're the best people. >> Okay. >> Amazing story, too, how they he took his tech >> entrepreneurial skills and his wife got into the Neers franchises and got now he's applied that talent and technique to the restaurant industry. >> I'm going to push everybody again. Episode 18. It's a good one. Okay. But not as good as 57. This is [laughter] not as good as I way better. I guarantee it's way better. >> Okay. So, Clint, here we go. I'm just going to do Clint today. I hope that's great. Yeah. >> Um, one underrated builder in Utah. >> H underrated builder >> who's doing some cool stuff no one knows or doesn't give credit to. >> Brian Gardner. Bucked up. >> Bucked up. Yeah. He just he just uh stepped down. >> Yeah. Yeah, he just stepped down as CEO like last week. I just saw him actually I say him because I literally just saw him. I came from an event with him to hear. >> But as he was telling his story and the growth of that brand, people probably know Bucked Up, >> but the growth of that is just unbelievable. The other one I would say that probably doesn't get enough credit is Sandy Hendry, the founder of Minky Couture. >> Oh. and her story. I mean, she was a school teacher for 35 years and her daughter got like sick and was in the hospital for for a long time and she started making blankets for her daughter because the hospital blankets like that store and that company is massive and it's >> literally I don't know where I've been am I seeing billboards on it now too like driving from here to St. George. >> There's billboard battle and there's copycat. Yeah. I mean like like we're so great at here in Utah is like somebody picks sees that kind of establishes that there's going to be a good idea >> and then you know there's other ones that copy it and stuff which is great. I don't really care but I think she's amazing. >> Those are two great those are very good >> building neither of those are tech. >> Yeah >> which is maybe an interesting >> topic. Yeah cuz uh AI is disrupting all >> I think Utah's really strong in brands and tangible brand companies too. It's not obviously the B2B SAS revolution over the last 20 years and then software and all that, but also I mean there's a lot of e-commerce giants. >> Well, and yeah, you you had a bunch of them that paved the way, right? Like I think Susan Peterson with Freshly Picked what she did kind of paving the way and showing that that can be built here. Kodaxi, I mean, we could go on and on. There's Tough Pops, that's a new one that's that's coming in. I mean, we're we're good at it. >> Kodiak Cakes, is that >> Black Rifle Coffee Company is Utah? Like, yeah, it's amazing. >> Okay, >> we're really good at it. >> Yeah. >> Okay, here we go. Next one. So, we don't um spend half the episode on just these prompts for the icebreaker, but cuz I want to hear these from you, Clint. >> Yeah. >> One founder you're going to survive on an island with. Who are you taking stranded on an island to get you out of there or survive on that island? >> I think Josh James. >> Josh James. Wow. That's a that's a that's a hot topic right now. That guy will not quit. >> Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't matter what's thrown his way, right? Yeah. And we can speak a lot on that. But yeah, Josh and I will defend Josh to the day that we die. He's a great dude and he's been very supportable. >> Nothing but I mean my all my experience I've ever had with Josh have been all positive and everything. >> Josh doesn't need defense. He's he he's awesome. He's he's incredible. >> But he's just But he's also just I mean on every count. I mean, as an investor, he takes care of investors and he unlike a lot of entrepreneurs. He purposefully will turn down a deal if it hurts his prior investors. It's really I mean, not everybody does that. He's just he he checks a lot of boxes. >> I love him. I love him like a brother and I don't care. [laughter] >> I think he's awesome. >> This next one's kind of controversial. Should I skip it? But I I'm going to throw it out there. Don't feel free to not answer. >> I'm going to answer it. Are you one kind of founder or one founder who kills the room? [laughter] >> And you can take this a different way cuz I'm trying to spin into my head. Maybe someone who like draws the attention in the room if you want to go positive or kills the mood in the room. I don't know. Either way. >> It's interesting you say this. Um there is a particular founder. We started this thing called Start School recently. >> And the whole point that we try to tell people with Start School is you got to show up and you got to give more than you take. And the type of founder that kills rooms instantly are the ones who are only there to take. >> Yeah. >> Who don't give. >> Yeah. >> Who they're just trying to take and they're always pitching you or handing you something or, you know, all of this type of stuff and they're not there to like have like a genuine connection or anything like that. They're just always like hounding. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like, "Hey, can you do this? Can you do this? Can you do this?" >> And >> that's a great answer. >> Um, so, so the founders who take more than they give, I found they burn out pretty quick. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And they come and they go, right? Um, one person who represents Silicon Slopes the most should be who? >> Karine Clark. >> Karine, >> she was recently on too here. >> She's the best. >> People really like her episode. I love her. I will always love her. In fact, we talked about my son's cancer battle. >> And not to get but the first person I called was Karine Clark. >> She shared her story on here with that >> episode 51 people. I'm telling you, go watch that one. It's so good. >> She's the very first person I called and she was incredible. >> Yeah. She had a ovarian cancer and it was just and she she I think I'm going to misquote her here, but she says the doctor told her like Karine, "No one beats this." And she goes, "No one beats it yet. I'm going to beat this. And she's come over, so it's [clears throat] cool. >> And she she's just also just whip smart. >> And dude, she is a dog. >> Yeah. I I couldn't get an appointment um at Primary Children's for because we found out my son, he got diagnosed with cancer. And then it would would have been like 2 or 3 weeks before we could get him up there. And I immediately called Karine and she's like, "Had up there this afternoon." [laughter] >> And she got you in. >> She got us in. He got booked. He got all that type of stuff. And she knew exactly what to do. She'd been through it before and yeah, I just love her. I think she personifies what Silicon She personifies giving more than you take. >> Yes, for sure. She is the exact opposite of that. >> And and she also just such a skilled operator. We, you know, there's entrepreneurs and there's operators and it's sometimes, you know, not every startup entrepreneur is a great operator to take it to height. >> She might be the best operator or one of the best operators Utah's ever seen. What she's doing with First Colony Mortgage right now. Yeah. Yeah. She told the whole story. It was amazing. >> Right. Right. Yeah. >> Super strong operator. >> Last one and we're going to do the opposite of what I asked you before. So, a type of entrepreneur Utah needs more of. The type of founder that we need here in the ecosystem. >> Probably more technical founders. >> Just more tech. >> We've not really had um a lot of hardcore technical found. We don't have a lot of Daarios or Elons or even Samman. I don't know that you'd necessarily call him tech, but he's probably more technical, >> but someone doing big tech things. >> Larry and Sergey like Yeah. Like >> but comes at it not just as a business or saleserson, but somebody who's actually understands and does the tech. We're the best in the world at I think at CEOs like um Josh and Ryan and Sconard and those types of people who really know how to build sales teams, build brands >> and the whole leadership side of things. >> Uh kind of like Benyoff, I would maybe say like we're pretty good at like building like Benyoff type CEOs. That might be the north star for a lot of these CEOs, >> but um highly technical CEOs who can really get into the weeds. >> Um I don't know that we we don't really build companies like that, which is >> Yeah. And I was just going to say those are the hardest um companies to fund in Utah. Deep tech is not Utah's thing. I mean Utah has kind of medium tech with great sales. >> Yeah. >> And boy can you know we can we can we can sell and generate revenue, >> right? >> It's going to be a real challenge too like because that's true and in the age of AI >> Yeah. >> Um >> yeah. I I think it's it's AI is coming directly for the type of companies that Utah builds. Yeah. >> And there needs to be a bit of adjustment. I think like the best version of that is probably somebody like Zuck who's like this highly technical, but he's also this amazing business guy. >> Yeah. >> Right. He he was amazing at both. I think Elon's amazing at both. >> Yeah. >> But um yeah, the highly technical CEOs. We don't have those. >> Yeah, we don't really, do we? >> I'm sure we do. I'm probably missing people out. There's a lot of deep tech companies that make their rounds in Utah and don't get funding and have to go way out of state to get funding. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, thank you for playing my icebreaker. Hopefully those weren't too uh pressing, but >> we could have done the whole show just on those. >> I know. That was awesome. I I just like getting your point of view, too, again, because you're just in the middle of everything. So, I think you have a great kind of bird's eye view of everything going on. >> Just the nature of how you do things as a person combined with this career you've had leading one of the most important things in the state of Utah. You're just highly networked. So if to ask those questions, he's the one to ask. >> Yeah, he's the one that Why Why do you think I wanted to do that one? I I seriously wanted to know what Clint would say to half of the I I didn't even say half of them because we're running short [laughter] on time. So, >> well, let's go back. I Let's start. Where did you grow up and where did you go to high school? >> Spanish Fork, Utah. >> You really Spanish fork? >> Yep. >> I didn't know that. >> Born in Provo. >> You're Red Devil. >> Grew up in SP Dons. That's >> Oh, the Dons. Oh, wait a second. That's Springville. Man, now I'm really in trouble. >> No. No. But uh [laughter] yeah, I was a Spanish worked don grew up in Spanish Fork. My grandpa owned a farm just outside of Spanish Fork in a small little unincorporate area called Palmyra. >> Oh wow. >> Named after >> New York. >> Palmyra, New York. Uh and that whole story. So um >> is that that's here in Utah? There's >> Yeah, there's a Palmyra here in Utah. >> Where where is that at? >> You know where Benjamin is? >> Kind of. >> Have you heard of [laughter] It's outside of Spanish Fork. It's this unincorporated part of Utah. >> Really? Okay. Interesting. Okay. But I should know that, but I don't. >> It's changed like everything. >> I'm transplant though. I didn't get here till what kind of high school kid were you? What kind of kid were you? What? Like who who was Clint in that era? >> Just a goof off. Just a total like I I didn't never even thought about going to college or anything like that. When I was No one had ever gone. My my dad I was adopted. I spent the first couple year of my years of my life in foster care. >> Oh wow. uh with my brother and um I was actually and we were in foster care in Spanish Fork with a woman called Grandma Olive and then my mom and dad who adopted us um they also lived in Spanish Fork. So uh you know grew up there uh entirely but yeah and and I was just a goof. No, no one had ever gone to college. No one had ever been My grandpa I mean my dad was my grandpa was a farmer. My dad was a janitor. My mom was a stay-at-home preschool teacher. like we'd never I didn't even know that college, you know, like I'd never even heard of anything like venture capital or what an entrepreneur was or any of that type of stuff. I was like maybe I'll be a postman or something, you know what I mean? Or maybe I'll be a farmer or something like and I wish I would have honestly like that sounds way cooler [laughter] or like a truck driver or something, you know? Like I always like thought about that. So yeah, I was just a goof off. I played a lot of basketball. I loved basketball. Um and yeah, that's it. Uh, I did a lot of reading and I the main thing I always wanted to be to be honest with you was a writer from a very early age. I wanted to be a writer. Like that was for whatever reason. And when I when I finally did graduate and I went to UVU, I have like an I probably have enough credits to be like [laughter] I went there for like six, seven years and I just pick and choose like what classes I would go to and I have like an unlimited amount of credits like way more than you need. And um I just went there cuz I wanted to learn how to write. I wanted to learn how to communicate and that type of stuff. So those are the classes that I was interested in. >> And what what kind of writing? I mean were you interested in novel writing or are you also interested in you know journalistic? I mean >> I was really interested in magazine writing [laughter] back then you know like uh >> like features. >> Yeah. Like uh Orwell expos >> things like that. And then yeah, obviously like um you know it's depressing if you want to be like a novelist or something you read like Toltoy or Dostski or things like that and you're like you probably can't do that. [laughter] >> That's about as good as it gets. >> So you went to UVU. So and then [snorts] what did you major in? >> Uh journalism. >> Yeah. Okay. [laughter] That that checks out. Okay. >> And so did do you go straight into beehive startups or [snorts] what did you do after? So I started working with the I grew up with um Aaron Gunderson who's a buddy of mine. We went to the high school together, >> right? Okay. >> So we graduated the same class, all of that type of stuff. And his two older brothers were running a software development firm in Provo. And I was pretty interested in that. I actually think I got um some some sort of job, but like a local news outlet, which doesn't really matter. I was like, h that kind of sucks. I don't really want to do that >> for but it was journalism. >> Yeah. And something like that. And then um yeah, I was like talking to Gundy and the Gundes because there's so many of them. There's like a hundred Gundersons. >> And uh I was like what you guys are doing is really cool. You're kind of and you're working at an very interesting space. You're meeting early stage startups. >> Um >> was that and that was and yeah. So I went and >> Where was its first office? >> No campus. >> The same one that we were in for several years. >> Yeah. Yeah. Really? It started in a little room like a room. I wouldn't even call it an office. like a room in the Novel campus >> and then you know they eventually got an iseni is back by the way like is like they've kind of recalibrated and done a lot of stuff around AI and >> and it's one or both brothers >> Jordan Jordan's bringing it back. Yeah. >> Okay. And and that was yeah I remember and visited there many times in those days and all those companies like you just listed before some of those top companies. It's amazing. Well, it was super exciting. They you'd come these startups would come in and they're kind of pitching, right? Almost like we would we would see them before like VCs would see them or anybody like that cuz >> part of the model it was a really trade for equities. It was a really bad model. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> To be honest with you, like from a business model perspective, it's like, oh, we're going to work with early stage startups who can't pay their bills. >> Yeah. [laughter] Exactly. >> That's a good idea. >> I tell everybody that because you know, I've been in the startup. to say, "Okay, first of all, you think I think you're seeing dollar signs with startups. You got to know that it's a labor of love and it's a lost, you know, leader for a while." >> Entirely. Yeah. And so, you really had to pick the clients that you thought would win. Yes. >> Cuz they didn't even have a product. So, like when Brandon Rodman walks in through the door, we're like, "Ah, this guy's great." Yeah. Yeah. Let's pick him. Or when Blake Murray walks through the door or something like that. Or, you know, Nate Quigley or all all the people who walk through the door. Um, and then we had a lot walk through the door and didn't work out. >> Yeah. >> So, did did the Gunderson brothers kind of pull you in and say, "Yeah, we want you to help with marketing." Or was >> Beehive? >> That's my question. Yeah. >> Was Beehive startup birthed out of you or them or like how did So, there's But then, and by the way, like I said, I still remember you had that podcast booth where you held your podcast in that office. That was a long You must have been one of the very first doing podcasts in that way. I mean, >> we probably were doing it in 2013, something like that. >> It seems like it was longer ago than that. But but okay, so take us on that. So is a dev shop. You know them from high school and they invite you to come in to do what? >> Yeah, >> I don't actually really remember what they asked me. Just like come help us >> to be honest with you. I was the only like >> I know how to code a little bit but certainly never coded for any not even a line of code. And I think there was four or five of them at that point and they were work. I think the primary client at that point was weave. >> Okay. >> If I'm if I'm not mistaken. >> I don't really remember why they wanted me to join. >> Probably just to generate business. My memory of you first was you seemed like you were doing like kind of feature magazine stuff for them. Like you were kind of promoting but through promoting and featuring your clients. Is that >> No. It's interesting because I got there and I was like, "Man, this is really cool." And I'd sat in all the meetings and and I certainly did some like business stuff and I don't even know I don't think any of us even had titles. I have no idea what what my title was or any of that type of stuff. And I thought it was really cool. But probably about a week in I was like we should be writing about what's happening here. Yeah. >> Like cuz that's like where you know that's like my initial thing. I was like let's start a blog. Like let's start writing about what's happening. This is really amazing cuz no one was telling the stories of what was happening. >> There was no media platform. Well, I guess Silicon Slopes did exist but like they weren't doing >> they were doing stuff and uh they actually started like doing uh incredible content actually cuz yeah, Silicon Slopes. Josh had Silicon Slopes inside of Omnature, sold it to Adobe. Adobe actually acquired Silicon Slopes. >> So, let's let's pause for a second just so we have some connection there because people might not know this. >> Silicon Slopes was coined by Josh James. Yep. >> Okay. the name Silicon Slopes and he as one of the great tech leaders in the history state of Utah knew that we needed to recruit talent and capital from outside Utah right is this so far okay >> and so branding at Silicon Slopes like Silicon Forest in Portland Silicon Allen in New York Silicon Slopes I think genius right some people at first didn't like it and I go what are you talking about >> I was one of them >> you didn't like [laughter] >> yeah and because it was maybe copycat or or too derivative, but at the same time [laughter] it is, but at the same time, >> it's instant recognition. >> Well, it's done the very best out of all the ones you just named outside of Silicon Valley, certainly of like establishing its own identity and not feeling like a copycat, >> but I still remember I mean, we're kind of jumping all over the place in the story, but um >> we did the first big event that BI startups ever did was an event called Start SLC. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And um Silicon Slopes I think inside of Domo is where kind of where that existed. They had done a month or two earlier Utah Tech Week. The first Utah Tech Week was actually put on by Silicon Slots. >> Um and not by me. That was like when it was inside when Josh was running it inside with Jordan Burke and Tessa Curry and >> and that whole crew >> and um we were kind of in a friendly competition. >> Yeah. with Silicon Bi startups and Silicon. So I um and I would got on stage and we had a Techrunch reporter there back when Tech TechCrunch mattered and it was like packed house at the depot >> and I told the TechCrunch reporter on stage that I would give her a beehive startups beanie if she never called us Silicon Slopes again. >> Okay. [laughter] >> And then if I remember right I got a text from Josh almost immediately. [laughter] >> Yeah. I was like, I'm just kidding around cuz we were always super friendly and nice and things like that and I I never really cared that much. Um but >> but there was competition. >> There was No, for sure there's competition >> going going back. So what happened was it was inside actually Omnature. Then Adobe comes in and Josh had a few skirmishes with Adobe and that he called me up one day said, "John, I need you to start a Utah nonprofit and you're going to be the board of trustees leader and I got to get this out because Adobe will kill this." That's kind of what he said to me. Yeah. >> Okay. And so we do that. I did all the paperwork, got this done, and we formed a board of trustees. And for two years, it basically didn't do much under my sitting there because >> don't put John Richards in charge of it. >> Yeah. Because because basically it was just meant to be a place to protect it from not being killed by the Adobe thing. Adobe's great by the way, but that's what happened. And so we got that in there and we and Brad Wrencher was involved in making sure we could make that happen because Brad was going to be the leader afterwards. And so we got that safely in there and then it kind of sat around and he had some people Domo handle it and all that but it really to be honest with you didn't do anything until you guys merged and that's really the truth in my opinion. >> Yeah. So I remember that I remember like when we in 2015 so just real quick. So we fill the gaps. >> We launched BI startups inside of probably my second week. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> At Eizeni. Put no thought into the name. bought the domain for like $10, >> but because you're like like Utah needs a media platform to >> it wasn't just your stuff. People weren't talking about Utah County, Salt Lake County, and all the cool stuff going on and it was so much >> everything like nobody had heard of. Nobody knew who Ryan Smith was. >> Yeah. >> But it was >> nobody knew who Aaron Scott was. >> But it was specifically Utah Tech though, not just Utah business. It was like Utah. It was just such a burgeoning time and the birth of the cloud and the SAS companies and Utah just was doing so much anyway. Right. Right. >> So we'd go I don't even know how I convinced the Gundersons to do it although they weren't paying me that much so it probably doesn't matter but like >> um so I just went around I remember like I'd go meet with Dev Mountain and I'd interview Kayn and you guys and be like and then I'd write a story like a way too long story and like you know all this type of stuff. I remember we did Kodapaxi we announced chatbooks. And I mean like it's incredible. >> It was such good work. And and and I I you were just about to say you what did you call it? Start fest. >> Start SLC was the first one and then we called it Start Fest because I didn't want it to be tied. >> The first two you did in downtown Provo. >> Yeah. >> Were my favorite. I mean I lit I compliment you so well because that was so good. It felt like South by Southwest in Utah. A Utah version of it. And it was I just want to I I probably told you this before, but I'm just saying here to everybody. Those first two events in downtown Provo were the best. >> Yeah, >> that's my opinion. >> Yeah, we took over Center Street. No, like my favorite event of all time is Start SLC. >> Yeah. >> Um for sure. But that's probably nostalgia. >> Yeah. >> Like the actual best event that's ever happened in Utah is when Zuckerberg came to Saw Palace >> in 2020. We had 30,000 people there. He was streaming it, you know, and like from like an impact. We did a gubernatorial debate. We did like all this type of stuff. >> It was fantastic. But I'm just saying >> I agree with you. >> Yeah. >> Start SLC and start fest like the grass. I think we spent 20k. >> Yeah. On the whole event >> on Start SLC. >> Yeah. >> I mean it the I just I I just the the quality of networking, the quality of the breakout sessions and stuff for true startup entrepreneurs was really high. >> Yeah. It was great. >> No. And we just brought back StartFest last week. >> Yeah. Yeah. First time we've done that in a few years and it was amazing. I just love that event. In fact, I was telling you before we went live here like >> it's still my favorite event. You know, like those thousand-500 person events are still the best. >> Yeah. Yeah. The 20,000 ones are just so so much work. >> It's unruly. >> Okay. So, [clears throat] I dev shop you come in, you get kind of >> the media attention on all the cool stuff happening in Utah. that comes into that and then that becomes Beehive Startups. And so you start Behive Startups and you hold those two events. Any other things at Behive Startups? Did have a newsletter? We >> Yeah, we we had all that stuff and all of that stuff. Like the kind of the pivotal point actually was StartFest, the one that we did in Provo >> cuz I invited Josh to uh speak at it >> and Josh, if I remember right, even sponsored StartFest to his great credit. again. Like Josh and I were always very generous that way. Josh is very I mean >> even when I'm going on stage saying don't like kind of trashing his baby. He's like no >> all my years at BYU Josh was so generous in the program there. >> So I talked to him backstage and he's like look we need to put these two things together. This is incredible. How do we do this? And I had been doing something actually called Start Foundation. I was going really hard on this start brand >> where we had Sconard and Ryan Smith and a bunch of other kind of top tech leaders. I was like, well, we had this thing. What if we got Sconard, Ryan, Josh, you, um, Dave Elkington, and myself and we created a new nonprofit cuz I remember like we had I remember looking at the nonprofit that you created. >> Yeah. So, just try I was being right. Yeah. >> Yeah. And so I remember seeing you on there and um anyways and then we created a whole new nonprofit, put the brand inside of this new 51 to the new one, right? With those >> and that was that was just a Utah nonprofit. It wasn't a federal one. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's cool. And and so the rest is history. It just merged after that. And >> so the the genius of it and again like this why I picked Josh in the at the beginning of this thing like that he's so collaborative. He he cares about Utah. He's willing to put, >> you know, something that cuz he he has real ownership into that name and that brand. He probably put a million dollars into it before any of this even happened in 2015. And so, yeah, he really cares about it. I think he still cares about it to this day. >> And to be like, you know what, like my competitors Ryan and Sconard and Elkington to also be part of this thing, I think was like that was the magic. The beauty of the early days of Silicon Souls was all of us being in a room and putting egos and logos at the door and talking about how do we make Utah better >> and you came around on the name >> and I came immediately. Yeah. I was like immed [laughter] like Yeah. I put no thought into VI startups. We shouldn't call it BI startups. Yeah. >> And it had so much brand equity even then. And you could see the amount of brand equity that it could have to the point where Yeah. It's a no-brainer. >> Yeah. >> I changed the logo though. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I can't even What was the first one? It was like more pointy mountains. Yeah, I remember that one actually. Yeah, I like the new logo. How long has that one been around for? >> Since 2015. >> Yeah, it's been a [laughter] while. >> Yeah. >> So, what would like Okay, so this merges, you get kind of the the kind of rockstar entrepreneurs of the growing unicorns in Utah, all that happening. What was your first like initiatives to really because you know it it started establishing outside of Utah that Utah's got a lot happening. you might want to relocate here as a management talent. You might want to invest here more and that all started compounding. How tell us a little bit about that. >> Yeah, just because everybody knows Utah's a strong tech community now, but even in 2015 that was not known at all. So the idea was we want to attract talent, venture capital and awareness. Yes. to what was happening in the state of Utah. And the idea that we all had was well, let's put on a major summit like and let's get like the biggest names in tech to come to Utah every year. >> Yeah. >> And really put us on the map that way. And so the first thing we did was summit. In fact, uh I think we decided to do it after Thanksgiving and we did it in January and we had 5,000 people show up to the Salt Palace for the first summit >> and that's when I knew like the coming together really. >> What are some of the lists of the keyynote heavyhitter speakers that you you Zuckerberg one time? >> We've had Zuckerberg, we've had Satcha Nadella, we've had Tim Cook, we've had Bey, we've had I don't know like kind of name it. We've had a lot of >> name somebody that we would know. No, I'm joking. [laughter] Shantenu, CEO of Adobe came. Uh, >> Slack CEO Stuart Butterfield, he came when Slack was like the hottest startup in [clears throat] uh, we had Parker Conrad when he was the CEO of Zenits and now he's the CEO of Ripling. We've had a lot of incredible >> I will tell you as much as all that is, my real value of those two was though out in the concourse outside the thing networking the network. It just brings everybody the network's unprecedented. >> You you kind of just announce the names to get people there. Yeah, >> that's Yeah, the names are never >> But the the deal making, the connections, the stuff happening outside in the lobby, that's a big deal. >> Well, the Utah Jazz like uh Ryan off the the famous story of Ryan offering uh pulling up on his phone how much the Jazz were worth and offering that to Gail Miller happened backstage at Summit. >> Really? >> Yeah. Just that alone is, you know, >> and by the way, Tyler and I really want to thank you, too. You've been really kind to Startup Ignition and us over the years with the Summit and what you guys are doing is amazing. >> Yeah. But you thank you for what you've done for us and helped us and you you've let our alumni, you know, attend when they couldn't maybe afford a full ticket. So, it's awesome. >> Yeah. >> So, with with the transition from Beehive to Silicon Slopes and really putting Utah on the map, like was budget there, is that kind of what released a lot of >> There's never been budget. >> There's never been budget. >> There's not budget now. There's never budget. Like the interesting thing about Silicon Slopes versus like a lot of other entities or organizations is we don't take like a lot of state we don't take any state funding. What what state funding we do get all goes to summit >> which is a whole separate >> Well, that's kind of my question is like how do you pull off that kind of community building and that event organizing and that kind of like grandiose planning and doing on a very shoestring budget. You know what I mean? you just kill yourself every year and it becomes too much and then you end up in the hospital like I did uh with a heart condition like it it was really hard. I will say though um we had at the beginning those five companies that I mentioned or those four companies >> they came together and put >> they each agreed to put in 100k every year. So I was starting with 400k a year. Summit costs about two and a half to put on. >> Wow. So you still got to go out and raise a bunch of sponsorships and you still got to, you know, do some things. But yeah, having that more than anything though, like them putting in the money was incredible and like the organization wouldn't be but them putting themselves in it is really what mattered. Like them attaching their name to it and their reputations to it and giving so much support to it. By the way, the organization is not it doesn't take a lot to run something like this is the other thing, right? I think people think Silicon is like this enormous organization. We have like five employees. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, you you you it does from an outside looking in, it feels really, >> but still you're to do a summit like that, that's a big undertaking. You you you have to get a lot of help. You there's no, you know, >> you have your five people, but >> you're still stressed a lot to the max on >> Oh, yeah. It again, like it's very stressful. It is, it's very hard. You're always raising money. Like I basically need to raise four to five million every year. >> Yeah. My gosh. [laughter] So I I and I don't I we blew by it a little bit here but and you're very open book so you don't have to open it up and talk about what was this heart condition thing you're saying tell me >> what happened what what are you saying >> so I think um do do you remember co >> and this the role that silicon slopes played and all of that like silicon slopes got asked by the governor >> to help with testing. >> Yes. And so we were like, "Yeah, sure. We'll we'll do this thing." And we announced this thing called test Utah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> And the idea was like, "Let's extend access to testing to everyone." We opened the first COVID testing in Utah County, for example. Like there wasn't even co testing and that's how early on was. >> Remember this? Yeah. >> And um there was a period there where I felt like the whole future of the state and community was like on my it wasn't, but it felt like it was on my shoulder. I was like, man, this is so intense. like there's so much responsibility here. And then it started getting attacked because we'd never done anything politically. Like I we were on the front page of Salt Lake Tribune like every day for like a year it felt like right. And oddly I was on the board of the Salt Lake Tribune at the time. So they'd always write this really negative story and then they'd be like at the bottom they had to do a disclaimer. By the way, Clint Betts is on our board. So it was kind of funny. >> But um that period like I was so stressed out. I was working like 18, 19 hours a day, feeling like the weight of the world was on me, like just going through personally crisis after crisis and like Yeah. I ended up in the hospital for 3 weeks. >> Why did it get attacked if the government the state government asked you to help, right? >> Yeah. Well, I mean that that's a whole like uh I could vent about politicians all day long >> and I love Governor Herbert and it really was amazing and we were more than happy to help. I still think Test Utah made a difference. I mean, there's >> um you know, you could argue like what inside of that maybe could have been handled better or all that type of stuff, but yeah, we got asked to help and then when it started getting criticized, it was like we were the we were the ones >> taking the >> taking the arrows when we had kind of nothing to do with it. We didn't choose any of these things or, you know, like they started attacking a hospital that wasn't doing testing the right way. We're like, well, we didn't choose the hospital. you guys. It was all run by the Utah Department of Health. >> Yeah. I don't understand this, >> but like we were getting hit for it super hard. >> Wow. >> And some and fairly for for some of it like some of the companies in the Silicon Subs ecosystem did have contracts with the state, but only because they asked like we didn't it's not their business. It's not a meaningful portion of their business. They could have not done it. All of them I think would have not taken those contracts had they known they'd be on the front page of the Tribune. The New Yorker wrote an article about it. I remember the New Yorker wrote an article about Test Utah and I knew it was coming out and I was like this is going to destroy us. I mean I don't know. I was I was like this is going to be awful. >> Yeah. >> I didn't get a single text message. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Not a single person cared. >> Yeah. >> I was like oh this is a big deal. Nobody cared. >> It didn't matter. >> That's interesting. So and um Well, but you're fine now. That was Was it just a transient thing because of the stress? Turns out I had Aphib. >> Oh, you did have a So I had AIB and so I got the whole monitor thing and Yeah. Know. >> Are you you're good now? So that's good. So sorry that you went through that. Yeah. >> Yeah. 2020 was a weird time for everybody. So that was just a >> for for a while is like two years was just skipped. Like I think like back in 2023 I'm going well that was just last year when it was 2019. I go well what happened to those other years? [laughter] >> Well the thing I learned from that is like man you don't matter as much as you think you do. Yeah. >> Right. Like don't put all the weight on your shoulders. Like everything would have happened exactly as it happened had I not even been here. >> Yeah. But you [laughter] killing don't sell yourself. Sure. You've done a really good job of gathering and building community here in Utah. >> I think so. But no no I I I think that's right. But you can you can feel I I guess what I'm saying is like at that time I was attaching my identity entirely to being like CEO of Silken Slopes. >> Yeah. >> Like that's who Clint Betts was. There was no identity outside of CEO of Silken Slopes, right? I had completely attached my identity to that. And I think what I learned through that process is you are not your career. You are not what you're doing. >> Well, you're not your wealth. You're not your n I mean literally it's if you if your identity and your persona, your feeling as a person is attached to something that could go away tomorrow, that's very dangerous. >> Yes. Exactly. Yeah. >> And like I had attached my identity to it so much. So like when it was super successful, >> I thought I was super successful. And when it was doing, you know, or getting hammered by the media or whatever when it was doing poorly or >> you know, whoever, you know, any sort of like controversy, I was like, I'm doing bad. This is bad for me. And in reality, it's not either of those things. Like I'm not what I'm not the CEO of Silicon. I'm Clint Bats, right? And I happen to like do that for a living. Yeah, >> man. Maybe maybe I'm just so disconnected from all the goss and tea in Utah, but like I I don't feel like there's been that much eb and flow of Silicon Slopes. I feel like it's been pretty up. >> I I do remember that period there was and I think Josh took some hits over that too, right? Because of his affiliation with it and Silicon Slopes about that. But I never, you know, again, >> well, funny story. Why? Why? Why do do people trying to help sometimes get the ones that look bad? I go, I don't. You could have also said, "No, I'm not going to help you." >> Yeah, >> we should have. Yeah. And by the way, we the the state called us on this uh data center project and we're like, I'm going to stay out of it. I've learned my lesson. >> Oh my gosh. >> So supercharged. And then I look at that I have some feelings on that because I look at that and go, my gosh, what you we're not going to stop AI. You we the internet's not going anywhere. And AI is not going anywhere. Yeah. We got to get with the program and we use it to make human life better. That's what we got to do. It's not going to disappear. It's not going to be controlled. >> Yeah. It's it's it's funny like the controversy they kind of spur up every once in a while and like I think in the I no longer take them seriously, but back then I thought it was like the end of the world anytime anybody wrote even something partially negative about anything we were doing. >> And I remember I mentioned I was in the hospital for 3 weeks for for my heart stuff. And it was at that point a guy that you guys have had on on this podcast and a guy I love, Dave Baitman. Yeah. >> S out some email. Yeah. >> Uh and he actually sent that email out >> to the same list that we had I had sent to for Test Utah. >> Yeah. >> So it was like that same group of leaders where we'd first organized Test Utah. I I don't know why he used that exact email list, but he sent this email that was very controversial. I'm sure you guys talked about it. And um I'm in my hospital bed and I'm getting like calls and texts and from media and stuff like and I wrote some statement that I couldn't even tell you what I wrote because I was like drugged up on like morphine or whatever >> and put it out like addressing that. And so and in reality like now if that would have happened I would have just ignored it. >> You know what I mean? I would have said nothing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Cuz what does it matter? >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. It's kind But you're describing kind of what social media does to teenagers, right? They get all, oh, somebody at high school wrote this on Instagram about me and they take it so seriously like, you know, and that's really it's, you're right, it's not as big as we think it is. >> I kind of want to dive into three things here and and one is is start school. I want to hear about it. >> Two is kind of maybe like a state of the union for Utah, like what you're seeing. But before both of those things is more about this community aspect of like your job and because I do feel like what I'm hearing is that a lot of people see you as kind of like the pillar of like Silicon Slopes. >> That's not good. [laughter] >> No, but like you know and for good and for bad, right? Like hey Clint, this is going on. Or hey Clint, what are you doing? Or hey Clint, you're responsible for this. It's like no, that's just Utah, right? So, like what have you learned about community building, being the head of a movement and kind of gathering like all of this movement in Utah for maybe the entrepreneurs who are looking to do that, build community and, you know, gather a force behind their own personal or private startup or movement that they're trying to get people behind. So, community building and then I want to move into those other two topics first. Well, I I think the main thing I've learned is you can't be in it for yourself. You can't go in there trying to take something from it. There's a higher expectation, particularly for leaders of community, to not take anything out of it. >> Yeah. >> Right. And I think so often people who start community organizations, they they there's usually an ulterior motive >> underneath it, right? like maybe they want to run for office someday, get their um you know public persona or you know they want to invest in the best companies that are coming through events or like whatever it is, right? And the main thing that I've learned is you can't be a great community leader if you're taking from the community. >> You have to give to the community. >> Why anybody would want to run for office, I do not know. But why would anybody want but why would anybody want to build community at the kind of scale that you have? >> Well, almost all of them have almost all of them have an ulterior motive. Let's let's just be completely honest about it. And by the way, even with an ulterior motive, you can make a huge difference. It's not the end of the world that you have like this other motive thing that's like, I'm doing this because it's going to help me here. >> It's totally fine. I'm just saying like where where you bump into trouble and where they usually fall apart is when that motive gets more and more pronounced. >> Yes. >> Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. >> So, but starting out though, like let's say for the budding entrepreneur that wants to throw events or build a community around their own startup or, you know, gather thought leaders, like what's the key? Like what really kicked Beehive startups into gear back in the day and then what took it to the next level with Silicon Slopes? What's the key to starting that kind of movement in a community like that? >> Well, first you got to have be very clear on your mission. Like what why do you exist? What are you doing? >> And remove any egos, logos, ulterior motives. And by the way, we haven't been perfect at this. There's been plenty of times where we failed at that. But that's the first piece is you have to be very clear about why you exist, >> which I feel like Silicon Slopes has been from the jump. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And then the model is a three- tier model. You got to empower the community to learn. So, you know, you got to here's everything that's happening within the community. Here's, you know, workshops, startup ignition, things like that. Things that Silicon Slopes does that are kind of like we have all these different chapters, all that type of stuff. You got to empower them to learn. >> So, like information and education, >> you got to help them with education. Anything like here's the latest that's happening on like the news media side, but also like here's how you actually do this. Here's how you set up a company the right way. Here's how you do marketing. All that type of stuff. So, you got to help them learn. You got to help them connect. So, they got to connect like what do you need? Who should you be connecting with? We're going to make we're going to hold events specifically for that so that you connect tax and then you got to help them serve, which is the part a lot of these uh communities miss out. They're really good at the learn and connect. >> But you've got to rally the community about something bigger than itself >> in order for it to be successful. >> And it's got to be about more than just deals or fundraising rounds or connections or jobs or things like that. And if you can if you can get the model where it's like 33% 33% 33% of those three things, then you've done something pretty beautiful. >> No, that's great. I mean, that was just gold right there. I hope everybody's listening to this. Okay. No, that was great. Um, Start School. >> Yeah, Star School, I feel like has been like a decade in the making, if not more. I mean, the first event was Start SLC. We had this thing called Start Foundation. I loved the idea of Start. We actually rebranded for a while to start studio. like there were like I love that was the name for a while called Star Studio >> and um Star School the idea behind it is AI has completely changed everything. It's way easier >> to start a company now than ever before with less money. You don't even really need venture capital. And as you know better than anyone like in the venture capital world the only way to get a meeting with a VC is like to know someone in their network. I mean, a lot of them are like very openly like they're very proud of that, >> especially a meeting that turns into something like you meet with a junior person at the firm and you kind of educate them and nothing really happens. But if you really want to get a deal done, I think I read recently 98% of all venture deals >> start with a very warm introduction. Exactly. >> From a known entrepreneur or another VC into another VC. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's why 2% of all venture capital go to women, you know, 0.25 25% to people of color. Like I mean there's real like and and by the way venture capital's awesome like all that you know like but there's like real the real challenges that cuz if you're only pulling from your network >> it's still better than ever but it's been traditionally pretty poor in those regards. Yeah. >> Exactly. And um and by the way it's not I think the I think the main thing that we've missed as a tech community for about a decade is that the only way to build a company is to take venture capital. >> No. That's Yeah. >> Right. And somehow even in Utah we kind of got lost with that. Even though Qualrix bootstrapped for 10 years, Omnature for 10 years, Pluralsight for 10 years, like our biggest successes all bootstrapped forever before taking venture capital. And you don't need to take venture capital. So that's that's not the reason why we're doing start school, but it's like what if we extended access to opportunity to everyone? >> Yeah. >> To all entrepreneurs. brought the greatest because another thing that kind of hides behind these networks is like access to like you guys or um Ryan Gardner who is at Start School today or Andrew Smith or Jeremy Andress or Ryan or whoever, right? Like how do you ever even get a room with them? That's impossible. Yeah. Right. It's like what if we we'll put we'll put you in a room with them. >> Yeah. >> And there's only two rules of Start School. It's free. >> The application's pretty long because we want to make sure that you're building something real, that you're committed to it, all of that type of stuff. So, it takes about 30 minutes to fill out the application. But there's two rules you got to agree to. You got to show up and you got to give more than you take, right? And we have over 450 companies in Start School since we announced it in February. >> I think we'll have over a thousand by the end of the year who have gone through this program as online courses. We put them in start squads where they meet together uh just four to six. We we pair them in start squads of four to six companies. They go meet on their own weekly, talk about, hey, what were you working on this week? how can the group help you? All that type of stuff because you, as you know, entrepreneurship is so lonely. >> Yeah. >> And just being in the foxhole with somebody else and seeing that everybody else is kind of dealing with the same type of issues as you. And how did you figure that out? I think kind of the core of start school we're learning is these start squads, even more than the education and the events and StartFest and those types of things. It's like being in a foxhole with other entrepreneurs. And so I think it's like the reason why Silicon was started and we didn't know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it just started in 2026. >> We did I I announced it uh I announced it at Summit this year in February. >> Yeah, that's crazy. Well, congrats on that. That's a great thing you're doing. So, but why what what what's the reason behind start school? You said, you know, every community needs a reason why like why take on that effort? Why organize these start squads? Why bring in these speakers? Why host everybody? Why why manage all that? >> No. So to the the answer is like to extend access to opportunity that exists in the state to everyone >> and not just that like >> for the other 98%. >> We we even say entrepreneurship for the 99%. >> I I read that article. Yeah. >> That's like a big So it's extending the access that exists here to everyone. 45% of the companies that are in start school are women led. >> Yeah. >> 45%. Yeah. >> It's crazy. >> And that's average age is 35. >> Yeah. And I still c the a lot of the women leaders who have tried to do different things in entrepreneurship still are saying how rough and tough it is out there for them. >> Yeah. >> It's like and so that that's the reason why you do it now. Why do you make it free? [laughter] >> But I don't know. That's just why not? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's you know low you got the sip now and and Utah needs 10 programs like this. There's so much. >> I'm not going to lie to you. When you announced it, everybody like sent me text messages like, "Oh, what's start school? What's start what's startup [laughter] Ignition Boot Camp going to do? What's what's going on here? They're stepping on your toes." I'm like, "No, they're not." >> Somebody else told me that. I think it was Trent Mono said like people were saying it was like a competitor to Convoy Accelerator. I was like, "What?" >> Yeah. And again, there's room for 20 of these. I when I did Boom Startup back in the day, I said, "There needs to be 10 different Boom Startups right now." at in 2010 what we were heading into for the next 10 years. You know, we started in 2010 with Boom Startup. There was an insatiable appetite. We got a ton of applications and we only took 10 >> cuz you know like and like startup ignition is a super intensive high quality. We take a limited number because we can't do what we do with vast numbers. It's not scalable. And so it's a really short short-term intensive experience. And so but there needs to be more of them. But the problem is also there's just not a lot of people out there willing to give like we put an enormous amount of time into this and it's not how we make a living, right? Yeah. But we love I love teaching basically what it is. >> Well, in reality, we're like a feeder for startup ignition. We're like a feeder for convoy. We're like we're start that was going to be my >> like we help you start. >> That was going to be my comment when you said that thing about convoy. It's like we're all very much actually synergistic, not competitive in any way. >> Well, we're not investing. We're not taking equity. You don't pay to be in there. Like we'll we'll fund it somehow. Right now, we're funding it through sponsorships. We'll probably raise an endowment or something like like we want that. We partner with Startup State and the state of Utah on it. And we're announcing a bunch of other partnerships that I think will just make it a fullblown community effort. But our job is to help communities, help entrepreneurs start >> and kind of provide them with a community and then they should go to startup accelerators or whatever. >> There's so much entrepreneurship in Utah. There's a vast number of entrepreneurs that have never heard of Silicon Slopes. >> Oh, >> start school, Startup Ignition, or any of these other programs. It's crazy. I and still this day I mean this the whole practice of lean startup and the methodologies behind that and what's I I'm a super devote of it of course but that came in 2007 I really supercharged I feel a big part in Utah around 2009 2010 and what we were doing and that's a long time ago and I still can't believe the vast numbers of entrepreneurs that are doing entrepreneurship incorrectly. >> Yeah. And I go >> where you know I guess it's just because I'm so exposed to I go how much you heard that there's a codified system to do this better than the way you're doing it backwards >> even just simple discussions like how should you distribute equity among co-founders >> how should you set up your entity you know should you do just a Utah LLC or should you get a Cc based in Delaware part like really kind of like basic who should be your banking partner you know like these types of And and the funny thing is is those mistakes made in the first 30 to 90 days of a venture, if you are not successful, they'll never mean anything. But most of you plan to be successful. So if you make those mistakes in the first 90 days in the topics you're talking about, they will bite you in the rear end. >> We just had Brock Blake on here the episode before yours and he literally said some of the things he did in the first 90 days, 180 days of his Lendio project, which was this one, right? because this >> but he says literally what he did in those first 90 to 180 days set the tone for the next 10 years of his company and he structure he would structure it differently I've talked to him about it he didn't but he said he said it right here today said yep we won we we I if I could go back I would change that >> yeah had he would have had more equity in it and you know there wouldn't be problems you know and so just like figuring that and by the way he's such an incredible entrepreneur he's been successful anyways But I mean, we could tell stories all day long of companies that that just those three things that we just mentioned have killed the entire company. >> Yes. So much. >> And this is a good segue to my last third point that I wanted to bring up before we have to wrap up this podcast is like the state of Utah. Like what what are you seeing right now in Utah, Clint? like you have a great kind of view on everything the whole landscape from how is the state performing like what is entrepreneurship and startups look like in Utah like what is AI doing to our state what is you know the next five years look like where are we at can you address us oh sir Mr. Clint [laughter] events here and and update us on Utah State a little bit here. >> I can try. I don't know that it matters, but um >> it matters to me. So I I want to hear it. >> I I I'll say a few things. I think Utah in a random way over the past six months has kind of been ground zero for the AI debate. >> Yeah. >> In the country. >> How so? >> Particularly because of the Kevin Olirri Stratus project with the 40,000 acres up in Boxelder County. the way that was rolled out, the backlash to that and where it stands now is really a fascinating case study for any other state or community or project um if they're to announce a data center in the future and like kind of how to do it, what to do right, what to do wrong, all of that type of stuff. Utah sits at an interesting crossroads, I think. Um and even just more broadly, I I kind of see the crisis as being a crisis of leadership more than anything else. >> Wow. Interesting. I think you know when you have Daario and Sam Alman saying we are creating a technology that is going to take your job and hopefully the government gives you a check but that's not up to us. >> Yeah. >> And uh it's going to be great. There's going to be, you know, but we're going to take your job. >> And then they're like, well, why is this so unpopular? Why are people protesting data centers? Why? I'm Well, you you're saying that the data centers are a literal physical embodiment of the thing that is going to take their jobs and livelihoods and their meaning. Yeah. >> So, we have two kind of crisis. We have a crisis of leadership. Like, why are those guys saying it? They're actually bad leaders for the uh broader movement of like what AI can do. I think Elon does a little bit better job at it. But for the for for like >> Elon's talking about the end state when he says that he's saying robots and AI at the very end of how all this plays out we're going to be a very fruitful almost utopian society where the government will have enough so that we won't have to work the same way. That's his end state. But these guys, Daario, and I just, by the way, I just listened to the allin podcast driving here to meet with you about this very topic, and they were saying Daario's statements are when the next one to three years, 50% of your jobs are going to be gone. >> And he hasn't taken that back. >> Yeah. And he won't walk it back. and what he it's obviously a regulatory capture play. >> And by the way, I think he might succeed at it because it's not just a crisis of leadership in the tech community with these big, you know, the leaders of these big frontier models. It's a crisis of leadership up and down uh the political at the government level all that type of stuff. does seem like you can kind of buy your way into some some rooms really pivotal moments because if we if the US leaders in AI are going to be monopouists or duopouloolis that that could happen in the way things are shaping it's going to push a lot of businesses to go to opensource models and where who's putting out the best open source models China >> China for sure >> so are we going to have US corporations using AI built by the Chinese that doesn't sound very smart. >> Even scarier. What if the government shuts down open source? Because that's true. >> Yes. That's even that's even talking libertarian issues, right? >> And that's what I think Daario is his ultimate goal is to shut down open source. >> I mean that if that happens, I just >> so these I mean this is like maybe like if that's true, that's like maybe the most evil things you can do as like the head of a tech company, right? And so um I think so so you have this crisis of leadership. I think you have a crisis of meaning. Who am I? >> Yeah. >> If you know like like I did I went through this like I am the CEO of Silken Slopes. That is my identity. If you take away what I do for a living, who am I? So I think we're running into a bit of a crisis of meaning. >> But what what's causing that? Why why now? What why why is that coming? >> I think it's social media. It's AI's taking my jobs. I think it's a lack of I honestly think it's a lack of leadership. I think our leaders have not explained things. They get up in front of a microphone and say, "We need to do this because we need to beat China in the AI race." Yeah. >> And we're like, "Oh, perfect. >> What does that mean?" No answer. >> Yeah. >> What does it mean to be China? They have all open source. >> Yeah. >> What do you mean? What does it mean to be China? >> Yeah. >> Right. >> And then we have a lot of leaders in government who just want to keep their position and be elected or appointed to the next term. Exactly. And that's their motive instead of what's best for all of us, right? And that >> it's dangerous. >> And there's nobody who just explained. So, one, if the entire reason is like we need to beat China, you got to say why. >> Yeah. >> Even if you just make it up. >> Yeah. >> You got to say why. [laughter] Like, give us a reason why we need to beat China. Sure, there's a good reason, but say it >> and talk slow so that we can all understand. >> Yeah. Speak [laughter] to me like a sixth grader. >> Like, what does that mean to beat China? And then you got to answer the question, why do we need data centers? Why do you need a 9 gawatt data center? You didn't. And it was never going to be 9 gawatts and it all that's done now. But like why do you need 9 gawatt when the entire state is run on half that? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like explain it. >> Like we're not like we're all in this is America. We're going to be super excited about entrepreneurs and innovation and all that type of stuff. But if you can't say why we need data centers, >> then why would you expect anything other than total backlash? And so I think the state of Utah is well positioned. I think we have good leadership. I actually think it's really really matters. Maybe more. >> So we're saying that was from like kind of a a national >> from a macro perspective. I think the state of Utah um has had its challenges here. Obviously, the most powerful politician in the state just lost his elections, Steuart Adams, because of the Boxelder data center. The two county commissioners who were up for reelection who voted for the project just got voted out, >> so it's affecting state politics. >> I do think the next governor matters probably more than it's mattered since Levit. Mhm. >> Who the next governor of Utah is is really going to matter. >> Yeah. That's going to be a huge deal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so how and and how about Hyper's focus on entrepreneurship though? Do you feel that you know that the 2000s were incredible for Utah, but the 2010s were supercharged even beyond that? Do you agree with that statement? >> Oh, yeah. 2014 was the greatest year in Utah Tech history. >> Yeah. You go from 2010, the middle of the recession, two 2008 to 2010, pretty bad, right? Recession Utah was very real estate orientated and it really suffered. >> Why 2014? >> Yeah, that's when it kind of woke up. >> That's when Qualrix announc Everybody found out who Qualrix was. They were so I still remember >> ancestry, all the stuff that's happened. >> I'm running BI startups. I still remember this. I can't remember who went first, but I'll tell it like this. I think maybe Ryan went actually think Sconard went first. Scorard calls me and says, "Hey, I just raised the largest venture round ever. Will you write about it for B startups? Right. >> Month later, Ryan calls. I just raised the largest venture round ever. He beat >> Yeah. >> One of them beat another one by like $5 million like intentionally so that they could be like the biggest ever. And then I think Josh beat them both with like a 210 and then it just kept going. There's been way bigger since like 2014 is like when all of those and inside sales uh raised a big round in that period and that's when we started getting a lot of national attention >> and people seeing like oh they build real companies there. >> Yeah. like they can build >> revenue, right? So 2012 the recession was kind of over 13 14 great years 15 and then we just went into this incredible period and then of course COVID which still because of all the infusion of capital we did incredible 2021 then the interest rates in 2022 and so we're kind of in the trough maybe coming out. Do you view that? I guess this is my heart of my question. 2000s, 2010s, incredible spirals up. Are we going to have another 5 to 10 year period where you think Utah is going to go to the next level? Do you think that's going to happen? >> The truth is, I don't know. If you would have asked me in 2022, I would have said yes. Now, I'm not as confident. >> What? And why not? >> Well, I don't I think there's going to be a correction in the SAS market personally. >> Yes. Like I think that the way these SAS companies are being valued in the public market is outrageous. They have 90% customer retention rate year after year. They're making so much money. They're real businesses. They have real sales teams. They have real relationships with clients. And all Wall Street is currently saying is like, "We think that's going to go away because Claude can build it." >> Yes. >> I don't think so. >> I just I agree with you. >> I think these SAS companies are so undervalued. This isn't investment advice, but I think they're so undervalued >> that there will be a correction. >> Yeah. >> Now, if that correction happens, I think we're going to be great. >> Yeah. >> If that correction doesn't happen and Wall Street is right, as they're currently betting, I think we could be in for a bit of a problem here >> because if people really are thinking that Claude is can just release a feature that replaces DOMO, which they can't, but like if that like then we've got something, >> we're in for a challenge. >> Okay. So, I'm >> particularly for venturebacked. I don't know what you guys think about this, but I don't know. >> I I'm kind of hyper specific. I think horizontal SAS is more threatened by the big LLMs, but vertical SAS isn't because >> vertical is very tough for a horizontal big LLM company just to spit something out that works for thousands of different companies. >> But being the devil on the shoulder here and taking the other point of view here for a second, you know, we are a venture fund. Part of the ecosystem that we built is a venture fund. We've funded o over 24 companies out of that fund and we're seeing the kind of sassagedon happening with some of the portfolio companies and even some of our boot camp companies that have built up this great customer base and they're slowly churning away right because their customers the customers that are buying >> the vertical ones are actually thriving >> yes but at the same time there is a big exodus of SAS right now that we're seeing and so I think Wall Street has some you know data beh behind that decision of that, you know, lowering evaluations of SAS in a macro level. But >> so I I don't know which one I agree with. I don't know. >> I don't know either. >> But but but I'm just saying I think I'm seeing it close to home enough to believe it far away from my home right on the federal level. But >> I don't know. It's just I think AI is so impactful and there are customers that are building their own SAS, replacing their SAS subscriptions and you know moving >> they're wanting to for sure >> and internalizing their own software. In the words of our own AI guy, he's member of an AI uh think tank type environment and they're all building vibe coding and doing all this stuff and then every once in a while somebody goes, "Is anybody making any money?" [laughter] >> Yeah. >> No. >> No. But these SAS companies or tech companies don't have to be making money from their internal, you know, work. >> They have to flow. >> I I know it's just Yeah. to the again, I have this conversation all the time. To think that it's more efficient to have 25,000 single individuals at 25 different golf courses make their own software to run that golf course than to have 50 people in a company making best-of-class software to sell to the 25,000 companies. That doesn't work in society. It doesn't work economically and it never will. Yeah, >> that's my pick. >> Yeah, I think we're in an interest I would love your guys' take on like the state of venture capital though. Yeah, >> and you probably remember this like in 2022 2021 everybody launched a fund. I got offered to run a fund. Hey, do you want to like run a fund >> like what? >> We we launched in 2022 after the crash. >> Yeah. So, so what do you do now? Like what is the state of venture capital? >> Super disciplined is what we have to be and we have to stick our guns just before this call. The very call we had beforehand. There's a guy who really wants us to invest in him and we like a lot of about him, but his his terms and the valuation and the method and what he was doing for the it doesn't work. We can't get a venture return. So, we just had to say sorry, we're going to root for you from the sidelines. >> I think I think we have to be disciplined >> to answer that question. Yeah. I think this last six months has been some of the toughest in the history of our fund just because we do have to be so disciplined in the in the decision of the >> You're probably holding back a bit, right? and saying we we need the right combination of everything. Like let's say I would say we have 14 check boxes. They all have to be checked. We can't have 12 out of 14. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> Because we just we [laughter] just don't know, right? Like a a lot of >> but we have found this year we've done two or three investments and we love them. >> Yeah. >> And they're doing really well. And we had to clean up their cap tables. We had to get the terms we needed to get a venture valuation and we had to be on the exact same page with the CEO founder and really have a great relationship and it all happens but that's one out of a thousand we talked to. >> Right. Right. It's hard. >> Do you start pivoting to like investing in energy because it does seem like energy is kind of the next >> energy is that's an interesting it is interesting that you're back like you were saying data centers. I think the biggest issue is electricity. We've got to be a producer of electricity better than we are. And um you know, China's really beefed up their electrical production, which means they can build these data centers and they have also a communist government that can mandate things. We have to be just a little careful. We can't have >> green philosophies or that are good and we want to have good envir the footprint and the safety and the cleanliness of nuclear energy. We Why aren't we doing more nuclear? build nuclear. The challenge again goes back to leadership. Nobody can answer the question like why should >> they want to stay in office and so the people against nuclear are going to vote him out of office. That's the problem. The other thing is too I've also come around on solar um because I started thinking about right now if you read all this okay thank read all the science fiction ones they say actually 99% of the energy we can tap is coming from the sun. >> Solar is the whole ball game. Every if you take science fiction writers, the only way that they can accomplish all the things they do is they tap their local star because the energy underground, the energy available in the earth itself is not enough for what we need to do future technologies. You have to tap the sun. We're starting to do that with solar panels and all this stuff. And I started realizing, yeah, and that gives us another 1%. But for the future of humanity to do what it could develop and come up with, we actually have to tap fusion and the star power. It's kind of fascinating. So now I say we do have to work on solar even more. That's what I think. >> Well, and then the other I mean again we we could talk. [laughter] >> We're having fun here. So I No one saw me in studio here, but I just looked down at the clock. It's been an hour 20. >> Holy. I was just going to say Elon is saying like, "Hey, I can put data centers in space." And if that's true, I don't know why we're building any data centers on Earth. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And imagine having the ability to suck in that sun's energy without having to go through our ozone 247 access to filter it, right? I mean, the power and the amount of energy available if we can do that. That's why it's fascinating, you know, I mean, we need entrepreneur thinking like Elon, don't we? I think we do. So to summarize back to the state of the union of Utah and what we got on this topic was is you're you really think the next five years of Utah is really dependent on a lot of the movements in leadership movements in the market and also that SAS valuation because if it goes up and corrects to a positive we could be sitting pretty. If it goes much lower, >> maybe we don't need career politicians because I'm just saying, "Oh, nobody I don't I want somebody that comes in is motivated by doing good. Not because I want a 40-year career in politics, right? I want somebody who comes in for four years, does their great job, and is out, and we get the next person, comes in, does a good job with their new ideas, and is out." Not somebody sits there for 36 years. >> Yeah. I think it's going to because you know John like when we were building Silicon Slopes and building this Utah tech ecosystem, how often did we ever think about what's happening on Capitol Hill? I don't even remember. >> Yeah. >> Like I never remember thinking about it. >> I think it's going to matter a lot more than people think moving forward. And so we we're going to our community is going to need to play in that space in a way we've never played before. And how we do that I think is going to be really important. Again, who the next governor is and yeah, like if there's a SAS correction, I think we're going to be great. If not, I think it's TBD. I don't think it's all negative. I think we're really great at adapting. We're really entrepreneurial. You can see it with Start School. There's 450 new companies that got started in state of Utah just through the Silicon. >> Utah entrepreneurs are very resilient. >> We're going to be great. We're really good at consumer. There's a lot of different things, but SAS in particular, I do think we need to figure out where the market shakes out there. I love it. >> Very good. Yeah. >> Got my head thinking. >> Exciting top. So Clint, just to wrap up the episode and be before we hit the minute, the hour 30 mark, um we always ask our guests at the end of the podcast, the same question to all the entrepreneurs listening, to the founders, to the people tuning in to this episode. What's one piece of advice you would leave them with? Like what's the thing that you want them to know or to think to act or behave or focus on? What what's the one tip? To me, it's the two rules of Start School. It's show up and give more than you take. >> Yeah. I love that. It's kind of been a theme throughout the whole episode. You're like, "Okay, what's the founder trait that Utah needs more of?" Give, don't take. >> Show. And you got to show up. >> Yeah. >> Like, show up. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Like, get off Instagram and Tik Tok or all like, "Show up. Get in a room. Like, let's go. Let's go." And then when you're in that room, make sure you're giving more than you take. >> That's awesome. >> Amazing. Thank you. >> You've certainly done that on our podcast today. Thank you. [laughter] >> Yeah. Thank you, Clint. Founders, you need to listen to this one. So, thank you, Clint, for coming in. Um, I don't know how to repay you. Um, but thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy Silicon Slopes schedule. I know you're everywhere. I know just this morning you were doing an event with Ryan Gardner. [laughter] >> And if you're from out of state, check out siliconsopes.com and see what's happening in Utah because there's a lot of cool stuff. >> Check out ceo.com. Check out start school. If you're in Utah, you know, follow this guy on LinkedIn. What's their social media of choice? It's just clip ads. But yeah, >> but what about TW? Are you on Twitter or I guess X? What do What do you What's your social media of choice? >> I probably post the most on LinkedIn randomly. >> Okay. Yeah, go follow Clint on LinkedIn. He's a good follow. Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much. This has been an amazing 57th episode. Thank you, Clint, for stopping by. We're going to wrap it up and thank you. Like, share, comment, do all that cool stuff. We love you guys and we are out. Next to rock next to rock next to rock.